the call to action is political because it always has been. thanks so much for watching. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. hillary's ahead of schedule but who is driving the bus? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. notice news tonight, hillary clinton way ahead of schedule. suddenly it's as if he's she's the next president even if obama is still president. but wait. wait a minute. it wasn't supposed to be like this. the hillary bandwagon wasn't set to rumble till after the 20 14u9 elections till the forces were organized and ready to make their kick. why suddenly does it feel like she's in the pfeiffer's seat. >> people are either positioning themselves already for a role in her government or acting to lock in pentagons they have with

either her or the few people she would give authority to hire for her. why does it feel like the train has already left the station? what does this mean for the other side? if the republicans are also looking for jobs in 2016 and need to win to get those jobs, if they see her on the move already, does that mean they're more likely to push a candidate with a good chance of boxing her out in the center? in other words, new jersey governor chris christie. does this help give him a leg up? boxing out, is that what the earlier expected coming of hillary clinton doing to obama? he's still in the inaugural term of his second term. is he getting brushed aside from the rush for jobs and connections to a president ho has yet to take office who might never take office? who is to blame for all the hilary action right now? a foo feisty crowd pushing her? a media, okay, i'm part of it, looking hungry for the next big story or is it the president in

the oval office? is the ronan hillary's getting all this attention, the reason the former secretary of state is getting the big buildup because the man in the white house and the fire and excitement for action with three years to get things done is so dimly lit right now? "the washington post" skras liz za is an msnbc political analyst and of the editor for the new yorker magazine. i want to start with chris. great column in the post, "the washington post" about sort of the oil and water aspect of what's his name, rand paul who's name i'll learn to say more quickly and chris christie. it's like that mean "the candidate." we ain't got nothing in common. let's talk about the dems. >> sure. >> the democratic party used to be the party where all the fight was. there was a fight between left and right -- civil rights, anti-civil rights, the old seggies hanging in there. now it seems to be a party of general agreement.

but i noticed something over the weekend. the slow, what do you call it, the thing where you change color to meet the background, the. >> chameleon. >> the chameleon party seems to be changing color to a hillary background rather than an obama background. i know you are reporting on the phone all day must be hearing thissing >> well, you know, what you hit on in the introis right i think which is i will say i am struck by how aggressive and how public she will herself is being with this series of speeches. she's given one, going to give two more on sort of big topics, voting rights, foreign policy. talk about national security. there's no way to interpret those kind of speeches except that laying the groundwork for 2016. i'll add one other quick thing to it which is the ready for hillary super pac, the extent to which real clinton hands, i'm not talking about sort of lower level operatives, herald ickes,

huge fund-raisers, huge factor in the clinton world, he is affiliated with it. some of the obama folks, jeremy bird and mitch stewart very involved in the obama field organization are affiliated with it. i guarantee you if hillary clinton or someone in her world said to harold ickes don't get involved with this right now, it's going to spur this thing out of control, harold would not be involved. so there's both -- >> you're so right. people are so talking, the old joke is are they measuring the drapes. let's be be practical. they're will are talking who should be chief of staff. i was pushing ed rendell. they're already doing the deck chairs. this is 2013. it's the first year of obama's second term and they're already talking about hillary and who is going to do what. are we ahead of schedule on purpose or is this sheer accident? have they blown it by getting too fast or is it smart to keep biden out of the race. >> i don't think it's an

accident. she came from a highly visible role as secretary of state. i'm not sure she knows how not to be visible at this stage in her life after all of the places she's been and the way she's been doing it. what's really interesting in terms of obama's visibility is that even as her secretary of stateship seems more and more having been about her and about her stature and less and less about crystallizing an obama agenda and so now his foreign policy feels really a little vacant, especially in the face of the crisis in egypt and the nsa. >> i think john kerry is doing a hell of a job bringing together the middle east because hillary hadn't done that. he's done what she hadn't yet done. that's the fact. >> it's true. look at her luck in a way. she left the secretary of stateship before she had to deal with questions like edward snowden's passport or the crisis in egypt. now it really can be about her

and about her candidacy. >> the "new york times," amy, now has a reporter, a desk editor whose entire job at "the new york times" cillizza back to you, your competition is in the "new york times," there's an editor, this woman has been assigned the job of hillary editor. that's how close it's gotten. >> look, chris, people always say to me, because i write a lot about this stuff unapologetically so, people always say it's too early. if you think that no one who is thinking about running for president makes their decision till after the 2014 election, you're just wrong. rand paul, ted cruz, marco rubio, scott walker, you know, that's -- martin o'malley. joe biden. there's a story in "the wall street journal" today joe biden says he might run regardless. this is a huge process. i compare it to an iceberg. the little part your average voter sees above the water, there's a giants formation below the water that's all of the

stuff we're talking about now. so look, you cover it if there's news. she is acting in political ways on a political landscape. i think we all need to write about that. >> amy, what's the first year you can run for class president? is it high school, freshman year? these guys and women show their hand that day, 13 years old. hillary clinton was the star of her graduating class at wellesley. no doubt about it from the beginning before she met this guy named bill from arkansas she had her eye on the prize. this is something that comes with the territory. usually the guys but here we have a woman. i think the woman's movement behind hillary is bigger than her. i think the reason she will run and maybe win is the power of women my age who want her to be president. it's an overwhelming power base that has little or nothing to do with the tactics of it her race. your thoughts? >> i think there's definitely that. you also look at the other reasons she's been in the news and her campaign in the news. one of them in new york is

anthony weiner and the fact that somebody on her stof humstaff, a abedin, he gets asked what her job might be on the campaign. there are slightly random factors that made it sort of a complicated question for women as well as because it brings up the whole question of the clinton marriage and the choices that she's made. so there's that, too. i'm not sure that it's for women of every age it's overwhelmingly unambiguously exciting to have hillary be the standard bearer for that. >> but i'll talk about women my age i've had to deal with like close to home. i got to tell you that hillary has done so much in her career that overwhens everything else. today on "morning joe," chuck todd said there have been unintended consequences of the big hillary clinton push and becoming so visible. we have also joining him is former white house press secretary robert gibbs who made

a similar point on meet the president yesterday. >> there's lame duck status happens to any second term president in two phases. one is in washington and the ongoing back and forth with congress at some point, you sort of run out of political capital. the president is running up against the clock on that over the next year. but then the second phase, of course, is are you a leader of your own party? at some point, the outgoing president is no longer, you know, sort of is a leader at large but is no longer the rallying point. and if you're barack obama, you and the want that to start as late as you possibly can. nobody's saying this is what hillary clinton's trying to do but this is an unintended consequence and make it harder for barack obama to be able to marshall resources. >> i completely agree with chuck. i as a strategist am fairly floored she has decided to enter

the public frail so quickly. >> wow. what do you make of that, amy? >> well, it's interesting because you know, we were at a stage where we were going from bush to clinton to bush and then suddenly we're back at clinton. it does have the effect of making the obama presidency swheem republicans in one way always hoped it was, an interlude. and it sort of makes it seem like a historical detour. now we're xwk back to the story we already know. and there are advantages for her. but there is the sense, chuck is totally right of feeling a little tired and a little early. >> i get the feeling the president's become reactive. i mean, i was once warned don't be reactive, amy. this idea of spending your life reactively, he gets a bad headline in the "new york times" and all of a sudden he has a press conference the next day. a reaction to editorial writing.

that's dangerous when a president begins to be not a case of himself doing what he wants to do why he wants to be there but simply reacting to events. that doesn't look strong. it looks to me mechanical. >> whatever you would say about the clintons, they're not just reactive. ef that way of disrupting and changing and setting agenda and telling a new story is something that they will have been able to do, and that maybe they're distracting obama from really figuring out his own way of doing now. >> you bet, chris, i know you don't bet, broder, one of our great grandfathers told you not to do this and he was the greatest. why do you think joe biden might, this is the way i'm phrasing it, why would he might take on hillary for the nomination fight? knows he's facing her? >> it's simple. he would like to be the president of the united states. i tell people the best indicator

whether someone will run or not is have they run before. he's run twice, '87, '88, and 2008. he is as close to the job as anyone. he sees and believes in his heart of hearts he's the best person to do the job. my guess though chris is that this is -- i think the joe biden he might do it regardless is much more about if hillary doesn't run. know the speculation if she runs he might run, too. i think the trip he's going to make to iowa next month to be at the tom harkin steak fry is about saying martin o'malley, elizabeth warren, all the other people hillary doesn't run, i'm the top dog and i'm in this race if she's not in. i can't see him ultimately running against hilary in what would amount to basically a one v one. i don't think any other serious candidate -- >> the way you described it because they run before is a sign they'll run again it's like where do you find a baseball manager in the major leagues?

look for somebody fired in the march leagues. great to to have you on, amy. coming up, stop and frisk. a judge haslemed it dramatically and many have criticized. tonight we'll hear from someone lo says that the policy if done right is saving lives. in fact, it's saving the lives of those in tough neighborhoods. also, a lot of people say the united states should boycott account winter olympic games in russia this winter because of russia's new anti-gay laws. olympic gold medal winner greg louganis joins us tonight to say that's not his suggestion. but next, it's been 50 years since martin luther king's junior "i have a dream" speech and nearly that will long since the passage of the civil rights act in 1964 and now "the butler" a mean based on the man who worked in the white house for eight presidents. i saw it last night. it is quite a movie. cuba gooding pops out so

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bob filner was due to return to city hall today but he didn't show up. some city residents in san diego are taking steps to make sure he goes for good. goes away. yesterday was the first day for recall supporters to collect signatures. they have to collect more than 100,000 in 39 days to move ahead with the recall. anti-filner protests you can see them picketing outside city hall. so far 16 women have come forward to accuse filner of sexual harassment. we'll be right back after this. . online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time with honest reviews on over 720 local services. i want it done right. i don't want to have to worry about it or have to come back and redo it. with angie's list, i was

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welcome back to "hardball." next week, obviously, marks the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. a seminal event in the civil

rights movement, one of the most famous speeches in u.s. history, king's i have a cream speech, the second best speech ever given in this country. this weeks starts with a dramatic remind her confident arc of racial relations in this country with lee daniels' "the butler" which debuted at number one in the box office, made $25 million inspifred by the life of an african-american white house butler who served over 34 years spanning some of the most important years of the civil rights movement start offing with the federal troops going into little rock in the '50s. the starring role in the butler" is played by forest whitaker and cuba gooding, he plays his cowork nerts white house. in this clip, he welcome here's cuba gooding's character welcoming the new kid on the block, for rest whitaker to the back rooms of the white house. >> there he is. heard you were coming. what's your name.

>> cecil gains. >> i'm carter wilson, the head butler. don't worry about big mo behind you. james holloway is apply second in command. >> why don't you shake the man's hand first before you start asking difficult questions. >> i want to know where the man's coming fromming. >> he give you the tour yet? >> he did. >> i might be able to answer that question if carter will stop running his nasty mouth. >> that was lenny kravitz at the basin. joining me right now is act ser cuba gooding junioren at mean's director lee daniels. you did it. last night i saw it in d.c. you got one customer and when i start selling a mean, i never stop. what i loved about it was the education. are you guys having a conversation without me? >> first off, thank you for all the wonderful things you said about the movie. we love to you death anyway. >> i couldn't hear a thing. >> his earpiece -- i was saying

it to him. >> just assume it's fabulous. >> here's the story. what i came away from not just the sweetness of the characters, you popped, cuba. you popped out of that room from that first scene. every once in an while, i'm getting down with forest whitaker's character because he's like job. like an old testament character. how much more crap can he take? how much can he take and he keeps taking it. you have this effervescence and you're enjoying who you are and helping the kid out when he's in trouble secretly from the old man, giving him money but saying give me the money back. he was a great snappy character. i want to go back to leon this question. tell me about your character, what it meant to you to play in the white house as a butler behind the scenes but yet a man on top of things? >> it was great because with this particular story, it's easy to make these butlers seem one dimension. . and without emotion and life. almost like dehumanize them.

they had to be in a room and be invisible in the room. so lenny kravitz and i had a real opportunity to be behind the scenes and just let our hair down, so to speak and to get you know, forest's butler to laugh and just experience life. particularly in those scenes in the house, it was just an opportunity. i mean lee was throwing stuff. threw a parrot at us during one scene. doing james brown just to show these were human people so the audience could connect with them. >> lee, i don't know if you thought about this. i'm a movie nut going back to the '20s movies. can you hear me? >> no, he can't hear you. >> maybe you can translate here. here's what i want to know. >> i can hear you. >> black history. this movie reeks reeks of black history like forest gump because the son is playing in selma, he's a black panther, he's everywhere. but the thing that hit me was,

black folk in this country, african-americans not people from the caribbean or mixed background like the president, your history in this country is so deep and goes so dpar back to the beginnings of the connieization of this country. you've seen all of us just like you've seen all the presidents. it's a sweeping look at how blacks are the real deep down americans. your history is american history. and that's what grabbed me about that mean last night. >> pes thank you. dy it originally so that because to me, it's a father and son love story. and what i found out that when we were doing the -- when we did the bus scene and the woolworth scene, the sit-ins, i found out it was deeper than just a father and son love story. that it is an american story. it's the civil rights movement and that the civil rights movement is american history. american history is the civil rights movement.

we didn't ask to be brought over here and didn't ask for the atrocities to happen to us post us being freed at slaves. it's -- it was a magical learning experience for me. >> cuba, what you could see as an african-american, just as an american you can see the way blacks have to talk to white people. you know, because the white people maybe have power in situations and you have to put up with the bs, if you will of acting a certain way like you're happy when you're not, is your subservient when you don't feel subservient. what did that mean to you as you learn the black experience. of living in two ways, the white way you have to show yourself and the family and friend way you behave? >> i got to be honest with you, chris. when i read this script, i thought that that was such a powerful mechanism to use to show the civil rights era. not an opinionated biased approach but an open approach

explain two ideologies, one being representative of the teachings of dr. martin luther king where we should be representative of a people accessible as a people and professional and act eloquently and speak eloquently. and then you had the other teachings of malcolm x who said by any means necessary we will get the respect that we deserve until he later changed his views. but this film steams encompass both of these trains of thoughts to through the relationship that is specific between the cecil gains character and his son. and it was interesting because it wasn't just about race. it was about a parent and a son growing and evolving in their relationship. and one you know, all the misunderstanding and misgivings that we all have with our

teenage children and how we have to give them the tools for them to be, you know, independent and strong and fierce and at the same time, not be too overbearing on our own opinions on what they believe. and i think that's what's so beautiful about this movie is the statement is it opens a dialogue so that kids today can learn what we as americans, white and black, fought and struggled for during the sit-s in during the freedom rider bus situations. and how we were we've been enriched by americans because of that experience and you know, like i've been saying in all these interviews, we travel foreign a lot. and the american brand has been beaten up and if they knew where we have come from as a people, they'd understand that president barack obama is a natural progression of things to have a black president of such a wonderful nation. >> lee daniels, congratulations. i hope this mean wins every weekend for the next three months. i got to tell you, i'll never know what it's like to be black.

>> you got soul. >> here's thing. >> this movie gives you a hint, a hint of what you think it might be like because it's so rich and because it's conflict package. you got oprah winfrey who was wonderful in this movie doing cheating, drinking too much. she stopped drinking, staying faithful to her husband later on. a mixed person with problems. the young good looking woman who is not a good person. the son is mixed bag. the other son is this loyal american that gets killed in vietnam. there's so much richness to the story. it's about people and about our country. we should be so proud. >> chris, what i've learned is that what i walked away from this film was that it wasn't as an african measure, you think we as black people were the only people that experienced the civil rights movement. but there were so many white people just as many that were killed trying to help america with the civil rights movement.

that was my learning experience from it and i hope everybody will walk away with that two. >> two of those three guys burned alive are white. thank you, cuba gooding about. you're going to get an oscar nomination. oh, you are going to get one. >> we're already dealing with one in the movie and that's oprah. >> whitaker is getting the big one. thank you. lee daniels, great work. fabulous historic work. up next, it's america's biggest yard sale and if you ever wanted a souvenir from the war in afghanistan now is your chance. if you want a humvee and an important programming note. starting next month, one week from today, catch "hardball" exclusively at 7:00 eastern. no more 5:00. for those of you watching at 5:00 eastern, next week you need to tune in at 7:00. we're going exclusively at 7:00 eastern. so we're going to having to share time at a different time. anyway, that's "hardball." i'm "hardball." it's the place for politics. i think farmers care more about the land

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back to "hardball." and time for the sideshow". if you've ever dreamed of taking a joy around the neighbored in a five-ton cargo truck, now is your cannes. $50 billion worth of military hardware used over the last 14 years in afghanistan will be coming home over the next 16 months. believe it or not, some of it can be yours at gov liquidati liquidation.com. it's like ebay for the department of defense. the site publicly auctions everything from aircraft parts and cranes to vending machines and household appliances. it's made more than $500 million for the department of defense as of 2011. but the drawdown in afghanistan which is the largest pullout in the american history means they'll have a lot more

inventory in the coming months. next up, a san diego radio show sent a not so subtle message to bob filner. surrender it said. he's refused to resign and now facing a recall effort. the sky writing as an homage to the family scene from the wizard of oz. nobody expects a happy outcome in this case. catch this. u.s. senator ted cruz released his birth certificate on sunday to prove he is a natural born usz citizen. but according to the dallas morning news he may also be a canadian citizen, as well. after consulting with canadian legal scholars the paper reported "born in canada to an american mother, ted cruz became an instant u.s. citizen but under under canadian law he also became a citizen of that country the moment he was born there." unless the texas senator

formally renounces his citizenship he will remain a citizen of both countries. he could run for parliament up the there. al in many this country he's disputing the legal experts asserting that he's not he says a canadian citizen. that's what he says. they say differently. up next, stop and frisk is controversial but does it work. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. are probably gonna double. but, dad, you've got... [ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? thto fight chronic. osteoarthritis pain. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. to fight chronic low back pain. to take action. to take the next step. today, you will know you did something for your pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a pain reliever fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain.

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second quarter. google shares rose today on the ninth anniversary of its ipo. the tech giant's stock has skyrocketed 900% since it went public back in 2004. and linkedin announcing its dropping its age limit to 14 starting in september. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." i actually thought that bill thompson said it right. bill said he didn't like stop and frisk but he had a son he wanted to make sure the kid didn't get killed. the only way is to get guns off the street. this is not just an academic exercise. this is people getting killed and sadly, unfortunately, we all see it again and again and again. it's the same group of people, young minority males and that just devastating that society. we've got to do something about

it. >> welcome 0 back to "hardball." that was new york player michael bloomberg speaking earlier today making reference to bill thompson, an african-american democrat running for mayor right now taking a moderate position on the city's stop and frisk law. a couple candidates are trying to find the middle. his remarks came today at a press conference where he announced a massive sting operation. the shakedown comes as he continues to defend the city's controversial implementation of its stop and frisk program which the mayor argues that's bloomberg has made the city safer by taking guns like theerks guns they picked up in stop stop and frisk. a federal judge ruled the tactics were unconstitutionally targeting blacks and minorities in the courts right now. bloomberg was livid when the ruling came out last week. he's filing an appeal and continues to plead his case. in today's "washington post," he spells out in a big editorial

plainly stop and frisk is not racial profile. unlike many cities where wealthy areas get special treatment, the nypd targets its manpower to the highest crime levels. 90% of all those who commit the murders and other violent crimes are black and hispanic. it is shameful so many elected officials have been largely silent on these facts. when it comes to policing, political correctness is deadly. brill brat tin is now an msnbc analyst and eugene robinson from the "washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. unlike other people, i'm going to try to find the way to good security in this country, people who love our cities, mr. commissioner, who love walking the streets of our cities in nighttime and in day and would like to walk to as many neighborhoods as they could at night without fear of death or mugging or something else. i believe police have a responsibility.

i want the honest police officer man or woman, white, black, hispanic, latina or latino to do their job. my question is this, police are not scarecrows and don't just walk around in uniforms and nice hats and do their jobs by showing up. they have to take action, pro action to prevent crime. what's an appropriate role for a police officer if he sees people in his sights that he believes are out for trouble. a gang that has just suffered a hit and he thinks that gang is going out for revenge that night. what's the proper role to revent crime? you would want it your officers to be cops, what cops are paid to do which is to go in harm's way. if they see something that rises to the level of a suspicion that a crime has been, is, or may be about to be committed, you want them to do something. you don't want them to do as they did in los angeles in 2001 and 2002 prior to my going there as chief of police, drive by and

wave. and with the result a significant increase in crime. you want your cops 0 to be assertive and active. but you also want them to be respectful. you want them to be mindful of the law, not break it to enforce it and you want them to in all neighborhoods of the city be the same, not behave differently in a minority neighborhood than you would in a white neighborhood. >> just to stay on that subject, loo i can we do at airports, and i know gene and i have been in many airport situations where it looks hideously stupid like lords where they expect people in wheelchairs to stand up and walk 30 feet to go through the turnstile. i go why are they doing this to an older woman? they don't want to be prejudiced to people who look middle eastern. on the street, would you stop four or five business guy to see if they're carrying? would you do that? >> you would not want your

police officers to do that either absent something that tracts the attention of that have individual to the police officer or the police officer attracted to them. and again, the supreme court has basically laid this out with a clear line that you can't go over. that you have to have a reasonable suspicion. and that's defined in the law and defined in. >> i want gene's reaction to what you've said so far. >> i actually agree with the commissioner that you want police officers to be proactive. i think what the judge said in this case was that this policy, the way the policy is being done in new york, violates equal protection. it's not the same in all the neighborhoods of the city the way the commissioner said it should be. and you know, once you look at the figures, you look what's happened with stop and frisk, there's interesting things that jump out. one thing that jumps out at me, for 2012 it, 86% of those stopped were black and hispanic.

in only two% of those cases did they find any weapon at all on the person, 2% of the cases in which they frisked. but of the few whites who got fricked in 4% of those cases they found weapons. that tells me there's something not bright about the way it's being done. >> what do you think is at work here as a columnist and a person who covers social life in this country, wa do you think is the matter of motivation for the police to stop these usually young men, minorities? >> why are they doing it to harass them or what? i can't look into their minds. i think there's some genuine good police work going on. there's some element i think of keeping a neighborhood under control. look, it doesn't -- that doesn't bother me as much as the fact that it's not done in other neighborhoods and that in fact, can the number one offense that gets alleged or charged after

stop and frisk is marijuana offenses. so that makes it a victim of crime on wall street but not. >> i'm with you on that. is there any way you can stop and frisk for weapons and leave it at that, mr. commissioner? because it seems to me, we have a general public interest in not having guns on the street. that's why people have problems withstand your ground laws, why people walk around with guns. >> one of the reasons there's been so much resistance to the policies of mayor bloomberg is unfortunately, because of his focus, his well intended focus on the issue of guns. he has creates the impression that the reason that stop and frisk is practiced in new york city is to get guns off the street. that is a one of the results, if you will, but stop and frisk is used for everything. if i stop you for a traffic violation, for drinking beer in an open container, it isn't intended to get guns off the street unless you specifically see a gun.

the idea is stop and frisk is the basic tool of american policing. and so much of the resistance to what's going on in new york is around the idea that, well, geez, 600,000 stops but only 700 guns, isn't that really overkill, if you will, to get those guns? so it's we're talking past. each other, unfortunately, on the situation. >> gene? >> yeah, and that's a problem, frankly of the mayor's creation. the mayor keeps saying it's to get the guns off the street. >> it's not. >> so if he keeps setting that as the bar, people are going to say. >> it confused me because i thought it was that too. >> that's what he said. i think you can get around the fourth amendment questions of unreasonable search and seizure. i think the 14th amendment questions of equal protections are more difficult but they're easily solved. would it kill them to stop some white guys. >> i wish we had the technology

where a police officer could have a scanner and find out if they're carrying. some day we'll have that. commissioner bratton, thank you sir. it's a decent arguments. we're trying to find the truth here. eugene robinson, as always. this is "hardball," the place for politics. geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to.

the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. i want to remind you again, starting next monday, "hardball" will be on exclusively at 7:00 eastern time. remember, if you want to see us and i do want you to join us, 7:00 is your time for us to share. back in a minute with olympic

medalist greg louganis on whereby america should boycott the olympics this winter in russia. every day we're working to be an even better company - and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train.

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but what about thick & creamy and whips!" and we were like, "done and done! now it's out of everything yoplait makes." and you were all, "yum!" and we're like, "is it just us, or has this been a really good conversation?" and you were like, "i would talk, but my mouth is full of yogurt." yoplait. it is so good! i've sent a message today to the united states olympic committee spelling out my own position, that unless the soviets withdraw their troops within a month from afghanistan, that the olympic games be moved from moscow to an alternate site or multiple sites or postpone or cancel. >> that was president jimmy carter, of course, on nbc's "meet the press" back in '80

with plans to boycott the summer olympics in moscow unless the soviets withdrew their troops from afghanistan. the soviets refused and carter went through with his promise to boycott. the soviets responded by boycotting the 1984 summer games in l.a. well, the cold war is over but when russia announced its anti-gay law would apply this winter, gay rights and human rights activists turned their focus into protesting the 2014 olympics in russia. the law allows for the fining and detaining of anyone deemed to promote homosexuality to children under the age of 18, whatever that is. but is boycotting the games the solution? president obama has already said he's opposed to a boycott. joining me is four-time olympic gold medalist greg liuganis. greg, it's great to have you on. >> it's great to be on. >> robert kaiser, a great reporter for "the washington

post" wrote a column saying we should boycott the olympics over the invasion of afghanistan. walter mondale, the vice president, saw the article, took it to jimmy carter, the president, who i was working for as a speechwriter and carter said, okay, let's do it. i think we've got to be careful about these things but you're an athlete. your life, your career, your greatness comes from being able to compete. should we stop our young people from being able to compete because we don't like an ordinance, i guess it is, in the russian government that we don't like? >> i did compete in the 1976 olympic games in montreal and then i had that opportunity, silver medalist there. 1980, i was one of the team captains of the 1980 olympic team for the dive team. what we wanted to do is go over there, send one person into the opening ceremonies and then all the rest of the athletes stay home in protest of the soviet

union's invasion of afghanistan but still have a presence there. and we had a really strong team. and you know what, an athlete, an elite athlete has a shelf life. i was fortunate. i was able to continue competing through '84, through '88. and i was on both sides of two boycotts. so, you know, i was very blessed in that way. but not all athletes have that opportunity. >> so what's the right way for people, gay and straight in this country, to say we don't like your stupid law. i don't even, by the way -- i don't want to be sarcastic about this but i don't know what it means to promote homosexuality. i mean you are or you aren't, it's nature, i guess you can argue about it. but an advertising campaign isn't going to change your orientation it seems to me. >> exactly. i would be walking propaganda myself personally. i'm a gay man. i'm also hiv positive, but i'm also an athlete too.

so, you know, i'm totally against a boycott. >> what's the right, smart american way to given our evolutionary values on this. i must say our values have changed, as you know personally. so here we are 20 or 30 years ahead of the russian people. what do we do to help them to catch up? how do we hit them hard or kiss them the right way to get them to change. >> i don't know if we're going to kiss them the right way and i don't know what that's about. >> it's not about anything. >> i think it would be wonderful for our athletes to go over there, gay or straight. and if they're sympathetic to their cause, because there are other countries that are involved here. there's denmark, there's the u.k., there's sweden -- >> how about -- remember the black power salutes at the olympics where the black athletes did compete in the track and field but they did put their fists up with the gloves on. should something like that happen in russia this winter? >> i don't know if it needs to be all that overt either.

i mean if all our allies were to dedicate their performance to their gay uncle, son, daughters. >> to make it individual. >> to make it individual because, you know, it personally says a story, that they're in support of their gay family. >> greg, we're out of time but you have the standing to make that proposal. greg louganis, and we'll be right back. whispering ] shhh. it's only a dream. and we have home insurance. but if we made a claim, our rate would go up... [ whispering ] shhh. you did it right. you have allstate claim rate guard so your rates won't go up just because of a claim. [ whispering ] are we still in a dream? no, you're in an allstate commercial. so get allstate home insurance with claim rate guard... [ whispering ] goodnight. there are so many people in our bedroom. [ dennis ] talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] ...and let the good life in. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses,

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let me finish tonight with this. i want to conclude the show tonight with a big ask. starting next monday, that's next monday, "hardball," the show of my dreams, will be on at 7:00 eastern. that's every night monday through friday at 7:00 eastern, not at 5:00. so what my big ask is, that you adjust your evening ritual. believe me i know it's a sweet time of day, to share company with me at 7:00. it's going to be one hour to share our points of view on what's happening in the country. i know from experience and from the political world in which i've lived the importance of asking. you ask to borrow the car from your dad, you ask a girl to a date, you ask someone to marry you. ultimately if you're lucky, you ask. i'd really appreciate you to share your time with me starting as soon as possible for you at 7:00. i'll have the news, i'll have the analysis, i'll have my attitude, as we say in philly, my attitude, my passion to make this a better country.